Martin - Another Way

From a career in sales to a garden shed — and into meditation and yoga. Today, Martin Seefeldt Borgen works with leaders through psychotherapy, an alternative to traditional approaches. Why are the things that work still seen as alternative?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Beyond the noise, a search for modern happiness. I one day, completely out of the blue, met Martin in a yoker house in Copenhagen. We connected right away. He had been through several crises in his life and had come out on the other side. Today I meet him in his home just outside Copenhagen.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

A few months after I sat in my shack, I came out. And I see so many things that I didn't see in the past. So basically, basically, the my life is more rich in experience. I mean my dream scenario is that that you get up from your seat in the office and you go to see the house therapist.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

And I'm drawn to explore with him why things like psychotherapy and yoga are still often seen as alternative. When in our experience they are anything but I met you in a yoga house at a terrace in Copenhagen, Nordic Elts House. Men at yoga. It's a rare side, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

It is. I have attended many classes with only women. So it was nice to see you on that terrace.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

And how come you started on yoga?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

I was recommended to to uh uh quiet my mind by using my body. Uh and I found that a little peculiar in the beginning that that I could actually calm myself down in the cognitive zone by using the body. Um and and today it feels like moving my focus and energy from the head into the body. So instead of thinking, I sense, and that's what yoga is for me today. I had some uh uh incidents in my life uh ten years back where a number of personal and and family crises occurred in a very short period, uh, and it it made me stop uh and consider my life and my career and my working habits uh and a lot of other aspects. So there was kind of a wake-up call um happening.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

You told me that I remember a story you told me very well because you told me that you found yourself one day going out to your garden in a in a in a small house out there uh with a big coat on and meditating.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, I mean that was maybe the the first step into the yoga world, uh trying trying to calm myself down uh and and and reconnecting to something that was more grounded in the body and not something that I had to think my way out of. Uh so I found myself in uh November 18, sitting in the shack in the garden and with uh a lot of clothes on and meditating and and and listening to things in my ears, trying to sense my body and and release my thoughts. Um and it this came after these uh personal events where I had a uh quite a big uh fight with uh close family members at a birthday party with which ended up in almost a violent confrontation uh involving myself. And a few weeks later I got uh fired at my job um and being released in in one of those ways where you are uh accompanied to the door and uh they cancel your phone uh on the way out so that you're kind of I mean I still had my clothes on, right? But it felt naked being released uh with uh with uh no further explanation, then we terminate here and uh we have had some issues. Goodbye. And to to really uh boost my crisis situation, sorry. I uh I had some uh heavy discussions with my wife also kind of demanding changes to happen unless uh we were looking into a or otherwise we would be looking into a divorce. So several life crisis elements happening at the same time, uh and and my way out of that was going to the shack and trying to meditate and concentrate and seek inspiration from some books on personal development because I did understand that I needed to do something different. A few months after I sat in my shack, I came out and uh I started uh uh to take an educate to to uh do an education, a four-year education uh uh in psychotherapy.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

That's quite a change from being a sales manager.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

It is. Um yeah, I mean the the the common part is that that many of the people coming here and the ones I work with are uh leaders and managers as I as I was back then.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

So Martin, we are sitting here in your clinic and I look at the books on your wall. Yeah, and I would say from my I have been a manager in communications. I can relate to a lot of what you tell. I've also been tried twice actually. Yeah and uh then I look on your books here and it's not particularly it's not exactly the books I remember from my managing career.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

No, I I I think I only maybe brought in one from the old uh library. Uh these books are mainly from my education period uh when I uh did this psychotherapy education, uh, and then of course uh some extra books on um especially on how the body works, uh on energy and body, on energy, body, uh, consciousness, um, and uh different uh psychotherapy uh methods that are described. So meditation, breathing, meditation, yeah. Also a lot on on breathing, nerve system, how the nerve system works, um, and how it is related to breathing. Um, this is your business now. You are you're helping also leaders in your company. Mainly leaders and in and and managers in small and large enterprises, uh working themselves through a transition process where they want to learn something about themselves uh to become a better leader or to navigate better in a political environment or getting to a point where they might understand that a large part of the problems that arise in their lives are due to their own personality and and and they can basically relate to the issues in a different way if they learn how to, and then the the problems will uh diminish because most problems are related to how I think and feel about what is going on and not what is actually going on.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

And and in your life, you are a completely different person today than you are five years ago, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Well, uh I just had my 50th birthday two weeks back, and some of the people saying something to me during that evening were talking about the old version and the new version. So I think you're right. Something changed, and I of course I recognize it myself.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Martin, I would like to give you a little challenge actually, because now we talk about this a little bit. If you now step back and you are in your old life, sales manager coming home, busy job, busy day.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yeah, I mean the the thing I see the most that is lacking back then is the is my ability to relate to uh the people I'm with and the situation I'm in. So basically I'm I'm not really there. I'm there, but I'm not focused on is anyone not feeling well or is anyone happy because I'm my up my uh concentration is focused on uh what I need to do. Yeah, what you need to do and not how you feel about what you do. Yeah, maybe I can I can have time for that son when I'm done doing, right? But then I fall asleep. So that was the pattern, and that's also the pattern I see with a lot of people coming in this clinic that that that uh so the the so here we spend time stop to stop and sense, and that's can be overwhelming to people if they have been running in this in this way in their lives for 20 years or 15 years, and that was also my case. That was also why it was quite terrifying uh being stopped from outside uh circumstances, and then I could only sit on a small chair in my shack, uh trying to get a hold of things because it was overwhelming, because uh all the methods I knew to bring myself into control to to accommodate my uh needs uh for safety and and feeling that I'm on the way and and I'm doing the right thing they were all gone in two three weeks. And and and and the big difference on to now is that uh now I am uh I have different uh needs. So it it has become a need for me to to uh sense uh uh what is going on. Uh it has become a need to slow down, to stop when I enter a room, I sense the atmosphere instead of uh starting to do something. I'm I'm like I'm and it almost feels because I've be I've been so focused in the way I've moved around, always looking for something to fix or something to improve, blah blah blah. That now I'm just entering into different arenas, into my garden or into my house or into a workplace, and I'm observing. I'm not looking for things to do, I'm just observing. And I see so many things that I didn't see in the past. So basically, basically the my life is more uh rich in experience and maybe I'm I feel sometimes less productive, but I'm not sure that I actually am. I think maybe I'm more productive because I work smarter than and not fast. And that was the opposite in the past. And many people in business life they are moving fast because the whole environment is demanding that you move fast. And I don't I have never I have not seen a job application uh requesting for a manager to be uh uh slow, right? I mean you need to you would you you you strive in a in a uh in a high-pace environment. I think that's the most common request in in recruitment, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Uh you know, I have this picture for me when I was a communication manager, you know, and I came to all this really fine exclusive meeting in boards, directors, and everything. We sat there and and then everyone, a lot of papers on the table, a lot of big decisions, and then you know, there were so many things, so no one really could follow the pace, but no one stopped and asked. And and uh I sometimes have this uh think that what would happen if I have suggested then that should we try to meditate for one minute or stand up and do some small yoga poses? But they would they would have I would have been a disgrace in the company. Yeah. We talk about issues, you could call them not traditional alternatives, some will call them alternative.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

And and you call it, you ask if it's alternative.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Um and yeah, because when I look at your war, you know, I I look kind of fine now entitled now and ask you about. Uh yeah, we don't have to talk about it, but uh shakas from India, for example, not acknowledged anywhere in the Danish Western medicine world. So so some of these issues must be very strange for people.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Most of the literature here is evidence-based and and uh a lot of uh interrupting so fancy, but still it is like so.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

I know it is like so that that a lot of people have issues with stress in in the Western world and in Denmark. And workplaces have a lot of fine agreements, and every time it happens, you know. I have personally tried myself and they have this brilliant way to you go to a psychologist because that's the solution, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

That's the official come back when you're safe and okay. And and uh and and just because uh something has been called official or this this decided that this is official, it's like everything else is then alternative, and and that's very uh limiting. It's it's uh a shame that things become alternative just because they are not official.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Um and uh because psychotherapy, you know, I don't many workplaces I don't think it's common that you can be sent to a psychotherapist or a yoga, for example, from your workplace, from your doctor in Denmark. No, it not it never happens, very rare.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah, and and uh you have a good example of what is official because if you look at the list of mental illness uh that the your uh your practitioner, your your your your medical practitioner, your normal doctor can uh send you off to a psychologist to get help. Uh uh stress is not on that list. So basically, if you if you feel stressed, it's it's not a disease. I don't feel well, and uh I don't think I have depression, or but you you need to wait to get the depression because uh before I can send you off uh on the on and the the government is paying, uh then I can send you to psychologists.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

But work workplaces do, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah, they they uh use the insurance system then to if you have some kind of stress you can get help. Yeah, but not to you.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

No, no, no, because uh yeah, and that's that's alternative witch or wizard.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah, and that's that's uh you you are not helping here, sir, because you are pointing at uh it's like it's magic, and in to me it's it's a very natural process. Um and the funny part is there are all the arguments about that it's working and we have evidence, but also just clear facts that people are getting better when we work with them. It's like it's not uh it takes a lot of work to to bring those facts and proofs to the right people and then make them uh make the decision. I mean my dream scenario is that that that you get up from your seat in the office and you go to see the house uh therapist uh because he's in the house Thursday and Friday. Just like on Monday and Wednesday, you can go down and get a massage because your back is hurting. That that has become normal, right? And also in in the workplaces where you where you come, uh you see this. Uh and there's a focus on healthy food in the cantina. So I mean things are coming, and I'm sure that we will see these uh I call them house therapists in the future in in companies because it's at some point we will realize that it's normal to get a divorce. 50% of all marriages end up in a divorce. So just look around at your workplace as half.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

So why should we I would uh say more stories about being fired? You know, if people hear it, they can think they've been fired, fine. But listen, it's quite normal in the business we've had sales manager, communication manager, I everyone get fired every time.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

A lot of people get fired, a lot of people have stress. We see though that in the statistics, a lot of people get uh um uh psycho um medicine for psychic uh or psycho what you call psychological illness. Uh I mean it's it's it's very normal uh at the moment and and it's and so at some point it will be normalized, and then there will also be a demand for I mean then I think the the a demand for those alternative solutions that you call them and and and then they will not be alternative anymore. So and one question for you. Yeah, what is the most uh significant contributor to your personal transition process?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Several things have happened actually. I've done a lot of things, but maybe the one most significant for me was that uh and it sounds so strange to say, but that I choose to go so much to yoga. It was very significant for me because I find found I found uh an incredible calmness in my mind. And I I I and and and also a lot of these things, you know, I actually started on yoga in an environment where I went to an to a class, trial class, and I was the worst in class. And and you know, that's not me. You know, we talk this about society communication matter, I want to be good. But I decided to continue, and you know, and and and and and it's not just the yoga, it's also the environment around yoga. I think I have actually this thinking that if we could take just 25% of the atmosphere, how people are with themselves and each other from these communities around yoga and bring out to the world, to the workplaces, then we might have solved a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Namaste. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

And who on the other side seem more at home in themselves than ever before. And the thought keeps returning to me. Why is what we explored, what we lift, still considered as an alternative? Why isn't it simply natural, as Martin says? Because in the end, it actually works. If you're curious about this project, you can read more at powerofsmile.dk. You can also subscribe to my free newsletter. No spam, no marketing, only invitations, like in this podcast, and conversations that matter.